So everyone is always talking about aggression, but a lot can be gained from playing passive in certain situations.
If you have a pair - top pair, overpair, middle pair, etc. it doesn't make sense to create a big pot. My favorite play over the past few days is the "offensive check" - simply checking flops no matter what if all I have is a pair. Players who are relatively decent will call or raise you when you bet on the flop a certain percentage of the time. My experience is that players understand the basics of the game - folding hands that do not have a good chance to win on the flop. So the hands that call you are big draws, or hands that have you beat (two pairs, sets, etc.). If you knew that your opponent had AJ and you have AK with a Ace flop then you would bet - but the rest of the time you are just creating a big pot with a mediocre hand.
By checking flops players will often bluff the turn with second pair or worse. I cannot explain the value of turning over pocket aces on the river after having check/called to the river against a poor sap who was bluffing to the river with AQos or some pathetic offering. The benefit of playing these hands timidly is that when you are behind the pots remain small - if you bet and are reraised on the flop, a good portion of the time you will be drawing nearly dead. Its just not worth playing for your whole stack with a single pair.
I tend to bet textured flops when I have a strong hand like a set or a big draw to the nuts or near nuts (12 outs or more) . This can get players with top pair into big trouble - they may reraise you with AK into your set - and now you have done exactly what the "offensive check" lets you escape from - creating a big pot. But now the tables are turned and you are looking to create the largest pot possible (at least most of the time).
By skipping the betting on one or more streets pots can stay small when you want them to and get big when you want them to. The value of the offensive check can not be overstated. This seems to be the most important play for playing successful tight/aggressive poker.
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4 comments:
I probably could not disagree more with this statement, you are essentially putting yourself in a position to make very hard decisions based on little information.
1.If you have a week hand like top pair/middle pair/bottom pair - your not trying to build a big pot, your trying to protect your hand, you do not want to give players weaker holdings the odds to draw.
2.If you play this passive style, your giving alot of information away to players like myself who keep running statistics on players. For example, last night I hit a set of 3s on a 3/5/7 flop - I was headsup with the small blind, he checked to me and I raised, he re-raised. Now, normally you would think that this is a great spot to be in however I quickly took a look at the players stats, he had an aggression factor of almost zero and out of the 1200 hands I have watched him play, he check-raised once... I folded my set in a hardbeat and he showed a floped strait. Had this player played more aggresively, he would have stacked me.
3.Running into aggresive players. I would say that 90% of the time, if it is checked to be, I will bet, regardless of what i'm holding. If you are one of the players who checked, you are not in a good spot here. If you have middle pair or bottom pair it is going to be very hard for you to call this raise knowing that i'm going to fire another bullet on the turn and then again on the river. If I am holding nothing, you have put yourself in a very bad position, you think you may have the best hand but its almost impossible to call knowning that I would bet my top pair like this.
Passive is not a good style, you should really reconsider what you are saying. I'm not saying that this tactic should never be used but I think its a very bad idea to base your game around it. As you move up limits, playing like this will get you in alot of trouble.
A friend of mine did an analysis of a 3 million hand database and the results clearly showed that the difference between a winning and loosing player is post-flop aggression.
I wonder if you understand what I mean here then Bruno.
As you said 90% of the time you bet on a checked flop - no matter what. This is why this is profitable to check. If you know your opponent will bet for you - but fold if you bet (unless they have you beat) then it makes sense to check. Sure some of the time you will be drawn out on. But some of the time you will felt a guy who is bluffing into your pair turned set.
I have to always comment that I play 10 tables, and only play AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, AKs, AK, AQs. Unless I have a very good situation I will fold with everything else.
If I was playing one table - aggression would be the best style. You could base your decisions purely on your opponents plays - using past data - like you are doing. However, once you get a lot of tables going, I cannot see playing that many hands at a time being feasible.
I'll post a few hands over the next day or so of examples of hands I gained a lot from checking often.
The thing I think you are missing is how difficult it is for players to know where you are in a hand when you check every flop. Sometimes I check-raise the flop, raise the turn, check-raise the turn, call to the river, etc. Its just so tough to ever figure out what I have - so people trying to force me out of a hand with top pair will be mighty dissapointed the majority of the time...
Hero dealt AhQh in middle position.
Hero opens the pot for 3x BB.
Vilian on the Small Blind calls.
Big Blind folds.
Flop comes As Kh 5c.
Vilian checks.
Hero checks.
Turn: 6s.
Vilian bets 3xBB.
Hero raises to 9xBB.
Vilian calls 6xBB.
River: 6c.
Vilian checks.
Hero checks.
Vilian shows QsJd - Ace high.
Hero shows AhQh - pair of Aces.
Hero wins the pot.
This is the perfect example of how playing a hand this way is super profitable. No QJ is ever calling a bet or raise on the flop. By checking I won 9BBs that I never could have won if I had come out betting on the flop.
I am not suggesting that ALWAYS checking on the flop is the correct play. I usually make continuation bets with hands like KK or QQ regardless of the flop - unless I figure that I'm beat. The important difference is that these hands are very difficult to call with (like you mentioned) if someone is betting into you. I like to find out if I'm beat right away.
The bottom line is that hands like AK and AA are difficult to get paid off with - unless you want to risk a lot to do so. With the new offensive check style you can win a lot more with these mediocre offerings...
My problem with this is that you are gaining absolutly no information and giving away a ton.
First of all, I dont think you play enough hands - if 10 tables is stopping you from playing the most profitable brand of poker, maybe you should consider dropping it down to 8 or even 6. Playing only those hands will not work when you move up limits, which is what we are all ultimatly trying to do.
As for your example.
Check/Check. You gave him a chance to hit the strait for free, -EV play.
Check/Raise/Re-raise/Call. How in the world can you possibly know where you are at this point? When he calls that reraise its hard not to put him on a hand that beats yours. AA and KK are very unlikely because of the preflop play however, A/K or 55 are entirely possible and hes trapping you but its almost impossible to know for sure. Hey, maybe he even picked up a flush draw and is trying to semi-bluf you.
Check/Check. Because you have played this hand so passively, you don't know if you have the best hand, so you can't bet for value.
-EV. What if he puts a pot sized bet out here? Do you call? It's hard to imagine any legitimate hand he could have that you beat, maybe A/J or A/10.
To be honest, you are playing like the players I try to sit with, Tight/Passive is almost never right. I think often when we multitable we forget that the goal is to become a better poker player.
I think you will probably keep doing well at this level, but if you try moving up you will be crushed by better players.
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